Thoughts on Free Rider from a longtime Line Rider guy

I started playing Free Rider 2 back in 2010 / 2011, but I messed around with line rider a bit in 2008. The Free Rider community has been through a lot of changes as the game went through it's stages; the multiple FR2 sites (where I first started out), the Canvas Rider era, and then when Kano Games bought the franchise and turned it into what you see now: Free Rider HD. The whole exploration thing isn't what won me over when comparing the two, but the sheer skill and imagination I saw people putting into designing levels was captivating. I'm an artist myself, and every time I see something incredible on here, it's made 10x better by being able to interact with it on a further level than just viewing it. You're experiencing it, admiring it, and just having fun with it. I think that's what I love so much about this game, and why it's stuck with me for so long.
This game and community has also helped me wish to improve as an artist. When I first started, art was just a hobby of mine, but more recently it's spun into something that looks as if it'll become my career. I've made many tracks over the past year, experimented with style and whatnot, and even got a few features. It's just great to use it as an artistic outlet and it's even cooler to see people play your art.

 

I hope this thread wasn't started intentionally to begin a community flame war!
Imo, player control has a massive effect on how Free Rider evolved, which is why I never played Line Rider. Player control also opens up interpretation to the track, but that also depends on the creator of the track. (eg. Magnum Opus)

 

Looking at the history thread you linked, I see that you have a sort of trackmaking progression with certain advancements. I think that's pretty cool to see, as we have the same sort of history, especially in autos. And also how you have members that you remember as revolutionary, we have a few select people that have that honor. I wish there was a type of list or page that could show you the history of us, but the memories just sorta live in our collective conscious. The community has been split and severed as time goes on.

It's a shame that Free Rider has been split into different communities and websites over the years (for various reasons), but the game was definitely the saving grace that kept a lot of the same people traveling from site to site. I see you've had some drama in your own game. I've never personally played Line Rider but I do remember a few youtube videos of it.

Most of the author/player dynamic happens on the forum, with a simple 1. post track, 2. receive comments, feedback, and other discussion. There's not a big need for more than that, although some larger organizing on the DB could be cool. A big part of the draw (haha) to the game is the freedom to create what you want, and that's been pointed out, but I think you might be looking at it in a weird way.

The Line Rider video+music aspect works great for you guys, sure, and it's a nice standard to have and it allows you to do cool things within that medium. Free Rider not adhering to a standard experience doesn't make what we do a "boredom killer", and neither does the fact that our art is meant to engage a person beyond "seeing what an artist created" as LR does with the videos. If anything it makes our game better suited to express ourselves. There's been a progression in skill and talent in our history, just as you've had, and there's been a love of both creating and consuming our work, just as you've had. I'm not sure why you might think that boredom killer is a good way to describe our valid and meaningful art.

edit: and also, don't let the need for a goal deter you from seeing our tracks as something more than levels in a game. The requirement for a star was meant for campaigns and improving riding ability, but some of us don't exactly agree with the requirement and make tracks that are more like interactive exhibits. We all have our own goals with our art, and "riding to the end" is the goal of only a few of us.

 

Ness himself creates Skateparks with no goals- the point of the track is to have fun, do some tricks and have a nice time whilst viewing some of the best minimalistic detail in the game.
I havent played LR before, however not being able to choose a route and go and do what you like sounds like a joy kill honestly- you have no choice, you simply follow whats going on, which imo isnt very fun at all. Of course I would be biased, but watching what's happening instead of doing it yourself sounds very boring. I equate it with being injured in footy- it's ok to watch, but you would have much more fun on the field and playing, rather than having no impact and watching from the sidelines. That is why I would always consider FR>LR.

 

First of all, I have been successfully convinced that Free Rider is much more than a boredom killer, sorry if I didn't make that clear. I definitely didn't create this thread to cause flame wars, just generate some discussion and get some other perspectives to help me understand my own art better.

Secondly, saying that Line Rider is no fun because you can't control the rider is like saying a movie is no fun because you can't control the main character like in a video game Think of all the things you can do in film that you can't do in a video game, and there are the things you can do in Line Rider that you can't in Free Rider. So I still think that Line Rider is a better platform for self expression, but I think that's a highly personal decision we all make for ourselves by getting deep into one or the other.

Third, I am now fully aware that some people create tracks in FR that are more like worlds to explore, but the fact that there is a required goal object gives it a strong initial first impression of being level design. I think it's fantastic that some of your are deliberately defying that but at that point does it become even less accessible because it's not what a newcomer would expect to find?

Fourth, in regards to Ness's comments about the history of Line Rider, you're right that Line Rider has a rich history. I've been the only real person working to keep tabs on that. We have a list of Line Rider Legends (which is a lifelong rank in the community), which I am in the process of writing bios for, I have that history thread where I answer questions, and I am working on a huge archive of track and video files so we don't lose any more tracks (for many various reasons) than we already have. I also have a sticky thread in the version development section which gives an overview of the different Line Rider versions that have led to our current versions. One day I hope to write a comprehensive dictionary of terms and lingo and the history behind them as well. I strongly encourage you to do the same concerning Free Rider - write things down before they are forgotten, and you may be surprised what newer members didn't know about the history of the game

Fifth, the Line Rider community was in some ways far more fractured than the Free Rider community. We Ride the Lines was originally I Ride the Lines, which was started by TechDawg (probably the most famous Line Rider of all) as a competing site with LineRider.org, the main community hub at the time. I chose to stay on IRTL (and eventually run the site) because I thought the staff on .org had become extremely immature and vulgar and they treated the site more of a place to hang out and chat with friends than a place to create, compete, and collaborate in Line Rider. But then throw in the addition of a poorly-managed poorly-maintained official LineRider.com forum that launched well after that and another site that launched shortly after that, Elite Line Rider (which drew popularity from bots that kept tracks by the founder, FlagCapper, which promoted his site at the top of the LineRider.com top rated lists), and you had no less than four major Line Rider communities in 2009. Today it is just us, and I am very happy that we are still here. I'd like to think that the reason we are now the only community still around is a combination of staying focused on Line Rider, generating discussions, competitions, and collaborations in the community, keeping an active staff team, and a certain amount of just... lasting longer than everyone else, haha. But you might be surprised how much an individual (in this case myself) can make a difference in shaping the community and keeping activity up if you are patient and persistent.

Lastly, thank you all for the extremely thoughtful responses. It makes me happy knowing that the FR community is so respectful and intelligent. Best of luck with all of your endeavors!

 

Sorry for the DP, but I made a thread at We Ride the Lines about this thread:
http://iridethelines.forumotion.com/t11739-i-made-a-thread-over-on-freeriderhd-com

 

I've never played Line Rider, but I started with Fr2 about 6 or 7 years ago. Then I went to Cr and I finally got an emailand used it to make an account on here and BHR.

 

The one thing that Free rider has that Linerider will never have is infinite replay value. Other than Auto's, any track can be completed in infinite different situations and methods and the longer the track the more methods of completing and that's usually what draws riders in because there'll always be a way to make your experience more fun or faster.

 

Good point! Can't argue with this. Though there are line rider tracks I have personally watched dozens of times, similar to watching your favorite movie over and over. But it is definitely the same every time

 

Sometimes it's cool to go back and re-watch or re-play your older stuff. We have a similar thing here where we can watch our ghosts, and it's basically the equivalent of a video as it never changes and doesn't have infinite replay value like the track itself does. Like dblu's ghost on Magnum Opus that you watched, it's basically going to be the same thing every time you watch it, unlike the track.
So it's not that we got rid of the 'video' aspect, but rather changed it so that the player determines the outcome of that video.

 

This is sort of like comparing watching your favorite Let's Play to watching your favorite film. When you make a Line Rider track, you have far more artistic control to tell a story or send a message.

 

Oh trust me, there's plenty of free rider tracks that convey emotions and stories through their artwork as well. Undoubtedly line rider started it all, but it's interchangeable through both platforms.

 

i looked at line rider a bit
and because i have only played frhd and never line rider i found it kinda boring, some of that was because it was new to me and i could figure it out so well but i find frhd more fun because u get to move the rider rather then just sit and watch. but everyone is different

 

I remember playing halo 3 forge and halo reach forge. My brother would always make fun of me for making mongoose race tracks (and regular maps) that no one would ever play (they were awesome BY THE WAY). I literally spent like 40 hours making every little thing perfect. Anyways, there's just something about making tracks and riding them that appeals to me. I've never been a fan of autos either (I have only ever published one like... 6 years ago on trackmill). Also, getting positive feedback from the community just feels amazing. I'm not really a great artist (although I am better than what my tracks reflect lol) but I consider myself a decent level designer.

I was never interested in free rider as an "art game" and that's probably why Line Rider never appealed to me. Also, bike>sled IMO. Plus the lines seemed thicker in line rider, and that always bothered me.

Edit:
also, I never really thought (and I still don't think) you can do anything with line rider that you can't with Free Rider (minus use a sled). The editing tools might be different, but you can still do all of the same stuff. Line rider feels much more limited to me. That's just my honest opinion.

dam this post had a lot of parenthesis. my b.

 

I like this discussion, a lot.
As somebody who has played both for many years, I find it interesting that there is such a disparity between the groups. People who play Line Rider don't tend to lend Free Rider players credit for being able to do plenty of things that aren't unique to Line Rider, and vice versa. Both mediums are capable of pretty much the same things, and it all boils down to perspective. Playing a Free Rider track can get repetitive, and Line Rider tracks actually do have replay value (especially more complex ones and scenery tracks).

Free Rider is definitely a much larger community and has more options for engaging the player. Over at WRTL, the Riders tend to work with the philosophy that less is more. In fact, we have a tendency to limit ourselves to highlight the potential that exists working within certain restrictions (one of the most common restrictions is using only one type of line, followed next by using only lines that are on the X and Y axes!).

What sorts of things does a player have to get good at to recognize the craftsmanship and have more fun playing FR?

 

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