Feedback from featuring discussions

free rider type beats?

 

Give Wellebelly his feat. The game is way too dead to be gatekeeping features with this system. It's incredibly disappointing to me seeing new trackmakers come around, breathing life into the game, putting way more effort than I and many other older users in the community could into a track at this point, and not being rewarded for it. It is actually embarrassing that you guys want to uphold an old and outdated standard irreflective of the current state of the game.

 

when did this game peak?

 

he'll get one in within like 2 months of now maximum have patience lol

 

The Bark by Wellebelly
Results: 3 yes | 3 no (tie decisions receive feature)

deferred by rationalities
Results: 5 yes | 1 no

Congrats on the features guys!

 

It’s only the beginning..

 

i kind of want to collab with I just work on the ride you the detail

 

I'd like to make a few points here (please note I'm a little salty my track didn't get featured but I'd like to address this current system and the flaws as I'm annoyed about other things)

Who gets to vote:
Currently, admins like Eryp and all VIP trackmakers get to have a say in what tracks get featured based on their feedback. I have no problem with this, but I find it annoying when the votes for a track are inconsistent, one track may have 4 people vote (like mine), and then another gets 6. Why not keep the sample size for judges consistent (I think 5-6 is a good number) it ensures more feedback for the trackmaker and more viewpoints on whether the track should get featured. Plus consistency doesn't make others less likely to get a feature.

Consistency
The VIP team aim to get feedback out within a week of a track being published if they think it's good enough for feedback or was suggested by someone. When my track was getting feedback, it took 9 days for a verdict (1-3 nay) and I'm yet to see the feedback. Like I know some people aren't available during that week but why not just extend the time for feedback to 2 weeks, it helps everyone.

Communication
The only communication the rest of the community gets when a track is getting feedback is if it's getting feedback, not who's voted or when feedback will be released. It's almost like you're just impatiently waiting (in my case I waited 9 days before getting a nay once I asked). This seems a little slack.

Judging rides
I've had a look at other feedback for tracks and sometimes the ride gets little feedback on it if the detail is so much better than the ride. But at least one person comments on improvements to the ride for all feedback which is nice. But a big problem I have is how those who gave feedback for a certain track don't even ghost it. From my knowledge and research, Eli was the only one who ghosted my track, ELI, ONE (we all know how bad Eli is at ghosting, probably the worst from the whole team, he knows it). So are you guys playing one part of the track and then that's it? Similar to my other point WHERE IS MY FEEDBACK! Who ghosted the track, who looked at the ride properly, whatever. It seems detail is the main factor for whether a track is feat worthy or not (in most cases it is) but because the detail in my track is slightly copy-paste, use of grid and cartoony, at least pay more attention to the ride. Oh, have I not mentioned for the 3rd time that I still don't have my feedback, so how tf am I meant to know what was said? (those past points are assumptions)

Feedback
This is pretty straightforward, sometimes not everyone's feedback was posted for a verdict on a track. It's either yay or nay with the vote count and one or two feedback messages from the team. COME ON, I want to know who said yay or nay and what I can improve on for future projects. It aint hard, it's almost like they only have a glance at the track and say yay or nay.

Comparisons and standard
I know I'm not a VIP or person giving feedback, but sometimes you have to question what the VIPs are thinking when they give feedback. Take Bark by Wellebelly for example, even tho it got 3-3, how in the actual f did it get featured? (now I'm really salty). The detail is clean and the ride is really neat but there isn't enough detail in the track. The track canvas is hardly filled. The elements in the track are drawn well BUT THERE IS HARDLY ANY ELEMENTS. I was always not a big fan of Well by Loge for getting featured, but I think that track shines over Bark (no hate Wellebelly). There is way more going on and I think that ride outshines the small but very clean detail of Bark. Do we need to update the guidelines for what makes a track feature worthy again? I agree with the quality over the quantity standard, but Bark doesn't have much going for it, the recycling (although effective which makes for a nice ride), makes the track too compact. Why did we reward Wellebelly for a track that has an unfinished feel to it? (like what Maple said) If they featured Bark, damn, I'd feature all the other good Wellebelly tracks like Cent and Blossom which I think are better than Bark as they are much bigger with overall clean detail as well. But ofc we can't do that, we can't give this man who hardly puts any effort into a track EA (this sounds rude btw I apologise). But to sum up, although an overall great track, the detail given isn't spectacular nor is the track canvas big enough to warrant a feature in my eyes. A track much smaller like Temple run by Ishu did it way better for the scale, it's insane the detail for such a small track.

Featuring older tracks and just plain reading suggestions
I love the idea of featuring older tracks if they get suggested (like SLD Dirt Factory 2020 by goofyinc), but I can count too many times when old tracks were suggested for feedback and no feedback has come. Like I know you guys have a life and I appreciate all you do for the trackmaking scene, but it is almost like you're ignoring people. Like, what about your initiative? I could count on my hand the number of people who should have their tracks looked at to be featured. TEAM PHANTOM TEAM PHANTOM TEAM PHANTOM. Hello?!? His detail is very appealing to the eye and the scale of his tracks is crazy at times (rides are hit or miss and lines are too constant or repetivitve but he should be rewarded for a couple more tracks).

General questioning
How did deferred get 1 nay, heaps of positives are going for it, considering all things the track is extremely dope. Updraft by Loge. It got one yay, how did a track like that get any yay?!?!?! My track got 1 yay as well, compare both tracks please, who do you think deserves more yays? I know this is coming from the maker of the track itself and with no feedback to refer to, but how is Updraft on the same plane as ss5?!?!? I almost feel the VIPs have favourites as I would not feature Wahoo or Well by loge either (sorry buddy).

Conclusion
After finishing this rant, I am very salty, very angry and questioning everything the VIPs do. Although part of this has sprouted from my track getting a nay, I think I make some valid points here, and I'm not lying or exaggerating some of them, they are damn true. Please note I don't want tracks being stripped of feats (unless they were traced or something) nor do I want to be like pssst and feature the most basic jumps track ever. But I feel no one has seen the laziness or flaws of this new system. The basic idea behind it is much better than the last system but atm, it isn't being pulled off in the best way possible. Once my feedback for my track FINALLY gets released, I kindly ask for the feedback and voting to be redone with more people and in a thorough way (I don't care if the track gets featured or not, the track isn't anything inspiring) but the whole point of this new system is get highly regarded trackmakers who know what they're talking about to feature tracks whilst also giving feedback to up and coming trackmakers (that is the most important part).

Please, PLEASE read all of this, I think everyone can benefit from it. (Once again, I'm a little salty about my track considering how long ago I started it and the effort put in, but please consider all the points I made, it would mean a lot, I ain't no average FRHD player, I see things, I know what happens, I'm here to help, serve and spread my honest opinions of the game).

Thank you

 

you hit a home run there

 

lmao

 

i dont really see what impact this would have if im being honest? looking back at the last few months, it looks like an average of 4-7 ppl vote on tracks, which is solid considering the small number of vips to begin with (and the even smaller number of active vips). i think maybe your gripe here is the lack of feedback? which is fair, but getting more ppl to vote wont lead to more feedback, just more votes. i have tried to give feedback to every track put up for feat since i got vip, but this week i started postgraduate study and didnt have the time - im sorry i wasnt able to provide input this time around, but i do still intend on getting around to it at some point

so the rule rn is that tracks are given a week for deliberation starting from the day the thread is posted on the forums, and i believe it was posted a few days after your track was uploaded (dont quote me on this though, i wasnt online here when you posted). however, i do like the idea to extend time for feedback - although idk if it would actually lead to more feedback

tbh im not too sure what youre trying to say here, and im not sure if it's because of a typo or because im tired :' ) feat outcomes - whether yea or nay, feedback or no - are posted on here, by the person who brought the track for voting on the vip forums. i assume eli didnt post in here because he told you elsewhere, but this is not the norm. im not sure if ive answered this or not, pls lemme know if i havent

i give feedback on the ride wherever possible, as i feel ride creation and analysis is one of my stronger suits as a player. however - as is evident in my different levels of ride analysis on Kano Labs vs The Bark below - i will only go into significant depth if the track's focal point is the ride. there is no point doing a huge analysis of something like The Bark, as it is very much secondary to the detail/art. similarly, i dont agree that detail is the main factor in determining what is feat worthy, when 1-4, the ultracave, la boite de pandore and opulignum mk 2 have been featured in the previous 12 months, and each of these are stronger in ride than detail imo.

now, onto your track specifically; you are right, i did not ghost your track (due to the aforementioned lack of time), though i did watch a ghost of the whole thing. and tbh man, the ride influenced my no vote as much as the detail did. i think youll recall that i was pretty critical of your ride in the super mario maker contest, and ss5 has many of the same problems without the same standard of detail you reached in the mario maker contest. which is to be expected, as you started this track long before the SMMC track. but dont think that the ride is ignored when judging tracks for a feat; even though each of the vips weigh ride vs detail differently, it is still absolutely a factor

tbh bro, no one gave feedback :s the one or two feedback messages are generally all of the feedback. i agree wholeheartedly with you, which is why i try and always give (extensive) feedback. it was unfortunate that i was not able to this time, but these things do take time. i generally play through the track a couple times, take notes whilst playing, then form a coherent paragraph or two of detailed feedback/analysis (or more if the track is centred on ride). and this can take up to an hour, which - earnestly - i did not have time for. implementing an extension for feedback - as you suggested - could be a good idea, but it would delay outcomes further potentially

ughhhhhhh more of this bs? of all the dogshit ppl pull when x track is featured and y track isnt, i hate it the most when ppl start slandering track x because theyre mad. it's so toxic and reductive and entirely pointless when discussing tracks. this whole paragraph reads like seething jealousy, and an unfair attack on an exciting, new and upcoming player. sort it out man, this is low from you.
im not interested in defending The Bark by welle, ive already given my reasoning on why i voted yes. all of your reasons as to why it should not be featured is subjective, like the entire concept of featuring is. but unlike your take, the votes from vips come from a place of a) less bias and b) more experience. tbh i keep writing responses to this completely **** paragraph and deleting them, im not gracing this **** with an actual response. blowing out other ppl's candles doesnt make your own shine any brighter.

i mean, what is the point of giving feedback if the player doesnt play anymore? i did/do it anyways, but i dont expect everyone else to. if it's voted yes, often there is feedback/consensus posted either here or on discord etc, and if it's voted no it's just not posted.
as for ppl being ignored, that just doesnt happen lol. the rationale here is that if it wasnt good enough then, then that decision should be respected except for the most egregious of cases. it's not like there's some conspiracy to prevent TP from getting feats, hell he's been one of my closest friends on here since 2015. it just is rare that old tracks are brought up for re-voting, for the reason i mentioned just now. perhaps - if ppl are interested - we could put up a bunch of old tracks on here every month that EAs can vote on for re-voting, and then vips decide on whether to uphold the no-feat or pass a new feat?

on the one hand you want rides to get weighted higher in the feat process, but then are mad when updraft - a track with an excellent ride - got a yes vote? huh????
this is just more subjective ****, and tbh i have no interest in arguing with you - it's your opinion, youre entitled to it (though id rather you keep this **** to yourself, it's toxic), and i categorically disagree. loge makes some of the best rides on the site ($loge to the moon) and welle some of the best detail on the site, and both deserve the features theyve earned. period.

you didnt need to say that bro, it was pretty obvious the whole way through lmfao. in a way it's fine, i like that youre this passionate about the game. i just dont think this post was the way to go about it. too much saltiness and toxicity mixed in with legitimate concerns. in future, id highly recommend taking some time to mellow out first, then write a post (take it from someone who also has had a terrible track record with being mad and typing)

this system of featuring has had just as much criticism (if not more) as the other systems that came before it, and i agree with most of them. however, this is just the reality of a niche, dying browser game. we all have priorities, and time is scarce for ppl who are out of highschool; writing out feedback is a low priority in comparison to university, work, socialising, sport, partners, bills... and so on and so forth. i havent spoken with any of the other vips, but im confident in speaking for us all when i say the vote on your track is final: it's a no. other than alex's massive track, all the tracks voted on this year have had 6 votes, whilst yours had 4 - that is a perfectly fine amount of people to use for consensus. bad trip, updraft and wahoo all had only 4 votes, and glavna ulica had 3. does that mean we need to go back to those as well? ofc not. the decision is final.
i agree with your last point though, and echoes what i wrote 10 months ago - it is highly important for us to give feedback to up and coming trackmakers. which is why i am still intending on writing your cc, and in a different timeline, would have prior to all this

 

Dude... literally everyone on the feat team has been here longer + has more experience than you have lmao. To sugarcoat the fact that you are salty using "I'm here to help" and using the mods "not giving feedback", "being inconsistent" as a way to deflect your saltiness just comes across as pretentious at best, and pathetic at worst. Everyone's human and the criteria for a featured tracks have always been subjective.
When Smithereens wasn't featured, I was salty too, and lashed out a few times but I know my place. The current system definitely has it's own flaws. But to talk/punch down on someone else's featured work because yours is not featured is a new low brother. You're better than this.

 

This all makes sense, I was just heated. Tbh the only good points I made were generalised to only attempt to back whatever junk I said and mask the judgemental, biased and jealous things I said as the main point of this thread as I said is to "give feedback to up-and-coming trackmakers". Even comparing two tracks that aren't mine comes back to reflect how I view my track and the verdict. Hell, I'm not taking back anything I said about those tracks I mentioned as that is my opinion but I came off as a little rude and salty, I apologise for that.
For what you said Nitrogeneric I get the experience thing, but as Volund said this whole thing is subjective. So I'm confused about how this has got to do with experience as I believe I possess knowledge greater than most people who play this game so I do know what I'm talking about. The problem was I judged how VIPs gave feedback and I was very opinionated in the wrong ways about other people's tracks. Although this whole thing is related to my emotions, I'm quite attentive, I'm quick to pick up things or quickly judge things (this was before I uploaded my track). So some of this stuff is valid but it's mostly fueled by recent events/decisions.
I thought my ego had gone done but it's still as big as ever. I don't think I will enjoy trackmaking again due to it being a chore and how life is really busy now for me. Besides, if I lash out like this when something doesn't go my way why do I even bother? My original goal was to get a featured track (which I did), then EA was the final trackmaking goal for me but now I don't feel motivated anymore. This game at times excites me and bores me. Now I feel neither. Time to go back to ghosting or something

 

It's not that deep

It's generally 4-8 people but you gotta think people aren't always around. It's always generally the same voting consensus.

This wasn't put up until I did 3 days later when I first played it. You could push it back but you want consistency. I did the only feedback and it wasn't as long as I wanted it.

We keep it anonymous unless done in the feedback. Idk the reasoning for that. Could state it's open for contention I suppose.

Chuckled at the comment of my name, I try and finish every track I can so I can make fair comment. I'll stipulate if I can't beat it.
The commentary is a day late, I didn't get on sorry as it's down to the thread poster.

You say it's not hard but you don't want to half ass feedback, everyone deserves the full bit of feedback and I try my upmost to deliver that.

Drawn tracks get the benefit of the doubt and therefore are featured. Bark got featured on the smart use of drawing and ride. I agree with all other tracks featured except ishus which I voted no due to unfinishedness.

Do you deserve feedback? Yes. Are people sometimes busy? Yes. Will you get feedback? Yes.

Tp probably needs a couple more features I agree but not everything suggested will go to vote. Feedback is given depending on time of the users, a yes no takes moments but decent feedback can take minutes to an hour.

I downvoted deferred, made it very clear my stance on it. Updraft was originally 2 upvotes but wasn't good enough.

Please, PLEASE read all of this, I think everyone can benefit from it. (Once again, I'm a little salty about my track considering how long ago I started it and the effort put in, but please consider all the points I made, it would mean a lot, I ain't no average FRHD player, I see things, I know what happens, I'm here to help, serve and spread my honest opinions of the game).

Thank you
[/QUOTE]
No, thank you. You gotta think this is a case by case thing, it's not the same, every tracks not the same it's subjective. Is the system perfect? No it's probably too strict for what it's worth but it's something.

I think for you it's frustrating because you thought it was an immediate switch to getting features or not. I don't get one every time and I have the most by far. It's just learning between enjoying yourself and drawing for the sake of it to get EA.

 

you can't say you are knowledgeable on this game if you dont know which famous EA's wife got murdered

 

a) why would you mention that
b) i do know so what's your point

 

who was it...

 

Yeah that’s cool and all but have you guys ever heard of this guy called

Freddy fivebear

 

damn y'all are acting like the games not dead, like how tf this gonna even happen long term.

 

free rider has been around since 2007, through plenty of ups and downs. the ride’s not over yet