Feedback from featuring discussions

Aight, I'm tired of the bs.
Idk how that mouth of spruce turned to call me lazy.
If we're really talking about copy/paste tools, that makes spruce one big hypocrite. Rayb and loge aside, please, just take a look at skeleton sea.
Otherwise it's just a hate vote because of the drama the feat mods had, which is fvcking embarrassing.

 

uber rare volund double post, had a read through Wayward 's post and appreciated the write up; wanted to give my 2c on what he had to say!

from my understanding of the way features work atm, each track is evaluated for a feature in a vacuum on a case-by-case basis by a random number of VIPs who happen to be active/want to vote when votes are put up. this naturally is going to lead to some inconsistencies, but overall should lead to a feat system that is more active/provides feedback/rewards ppl for attaining VIP/brings back community discussion on feats. however, the feedback part has already been lost, which makes featuring seem a lot more inconsistent than what it actually is (imo). indeed, i think that if youre going to vote as a VIP, your feedback cant just be "not rewarding lazy and bad trash LOL", you come off like an elitist ****. i understand that not everyone has the time for an in-depth write up, but ffs the feat mods need to understand their audience. if youre judging a track for a player who is potentially getting their first feat, give a shitload of feedback. if it's voting on an EA track, you can probably get away with a shorter excerpt.

i understand why ppl may see the feat process as insular/elitist/unfair, because the feat mods are shooting themselves in the foot by not providing regular and logical feedback. but imo, the consistency of the list has been solid up until now.

im 99% sure that they dont use this anymore, and that it's just based off the intuition/experience of the VIPs. this streamlines the process of featuring, but also leads to biased and objectively sh*t takes to be counted while also making the voting process harder to understand for less-experienced players. again, more feedback remedies this.

i personally agree with the decision to not feature felines. here is what feedback should've looked like for a player who is yet to get a feat, but is obviously very close.
drawbacks of the track:

1. the track lacks cohesion; the tiger (centrepiece and wow-factor of the track) is not integrated into the rest of the track, and sticks out like a sore thumb because of it
2. the ride in places is inconsistent, which could have been remedied with a bit more planning and work
3. the detail in places is quite messy (trees, waterfall, some pipes); whilst some may like this stylistic choice, i personally am not a fan
4. the track is very cramped which exacerbates the feeling (for me, at least) that the detail is messy and poor​

strengths of the track:

1. tiger is well-drawn! just lacks implementation to really sell the track as a setpiece
2. shading in the underground section is really really nice (in most places; some areas are a bit eh, but generally great)
3. rock detail is generally well-done and effective​

areas for improvement:

1. connect your lines! will greatly help reduce clutter, and will elevate the aesthetic of the track
2. work on ironing out kinks in your ride. if you come across even one inconsistency, fix it so that it never happens again! this enhances replayability and reduces player frustration
3. centrepieces in tracks only work when implemented well!! the wow-factor is not in the quality/density of the tiger being higher than the rest of the track, but in the way it synergises and thus elevates its surroundings. i would recommend against drawing animals to scales such as this as it is hard to pull off without making the animal look silly/out of place. i would also try and make sure that the style of your centrepiece matches the rest of the track; the tiger is a lot denser than your other detail, which contributes to it sticking out
4. spread out the track more! less cramp = less messy​

i sympathise with yall. this part here has made me realise that it is probably harder now to get good at trackmaking than at any point in the game's lifespan. feedback from VIPs is given at random, ppl dont provide CC on the forums, and the main frhd discord can get pretty dead. all this to say, i think we all have a part to play in remedying this. maybe we need a CC channel in the discord, or normalise ppl posting for in-depth feedback in the trackmaking section on the discord? as for myself, i am always happy to provide CC when dm'ed. i can definitely be an ass on here a lot lol, but i'll always take someone's request for trackmaking advice seriously

tl;dr feat process isn't that inconsistent imo, but lack of feedback from VIPs makes it seem that way. feedback needs to be provided to new players more than anything else. otherwise will perpetuate the idea that the feat list etc is insular and elitist

 

i will say that the copypasting in both ultracave and alakazam was necessary in order to get both tracks out on time. spruce definitely could have avoided copypasting if he so desired and the track wouldnt have suffered as a result.

 

I mean yeah, it is really true, very inconsistent track and I'd easily take 'lazy' from spruce had it been constructive criticism, and look, I did get lazy near the end mainly coz I couldn't be asked. I mean, mate, at the end of the day, it's a barely thriving, but really neat little community where you can add some of your artistic taste into. Even then, being one of the greats is hard seeing as I'm kinda young aha and to be one would mean being one of those 20 yr old staying at their parents home types, and I just don't wanna be going down there. But Volund , 100% agree with every point you made, and I love the fact that you told me what I can do better, because there always is something. Really for me I felt like this was a big step from the usual $hitty tracks I post and was more of a 'getting to that level' type of thing, aiming for a feat in future days. Sadly, this is probably not gonna happen though, seeing as schools getting more time-sensitive, and I need to spend more time on some commissions coming through .

But mate, at the end of the day, its a bloody bike race game, so idrgas (even though the kid in me is rly disappointed lol), but I appreciate the concerns.

P.s Wayward , man I apprieciate everything you do, legend

 

Volund did a great job explaining the feat process and its shortcomings, thank you for that.

I hear what you guys are saying. this overhaul of the featuring system was intended to give more constructive criticism to trackmakers and letting you guys know why a track did or didn't get featured. I understand that the amount of feedback is lacking, especially when it is needed most by trackmakers with potential first-time feats.

I'm happy to give feedback when I have the time, and I think the other VIPs feel the same. regrettably, we do not always have the time or motivation. but to my knowledge, there has been more constructive criticism given to trackmakers from VIPs than ever before, and I'm proud of that. and as Volund suggested, I think there should be more CC given from everyone on the forums.

when it comes to featuring standards, I'm more conflicted. I don't know how else to say this, but a feature is just a click of the button. the feedback and comments from your peers, the sense of accomplishment of making it, and just the simple joy you take in playing the track is 1000% more important than the feature.

I understand why the importance is being placed on features, and as the group in charge of featuring, we'll continue to respect that. but here's the thing:

that is not new. that is what featuring has always been. and the sooner you guys realize how flawed a system this is, and that the only good thing coming from it is the feedback, the better.

 

When I said “I don’t reward laziness” I was quoting Eli’s comments on why he didn’t want to feature Temple Run. Not my real reasoning behind my no.

 

Stand by my comment.

Please give malishya some feedback bls bb pl0x

p.s. spruce daddy loves you xoxo

 

I exist and would volunteer to be a moderator for the discord. i am good at working stuff out and just have an okay brain for it. (also I'm an admin in the eth server so i know some stuff abt it)

 

Moderating takes zero brain power

(Totocat, you're cool dude)

 

Happy to moderate, pretty active, programming fun, good leader, stuff like that on Discord. Lol

 

"Moderating takes zero brain power"
- Fluoride 2023

All you do is wait till some idiot does something stupid and send them to the shadow realm. Anyone can become a moderator. With all do respect, we have the forums... while at times it's one to two people online, everything still happens here. The only good thing about the discord is knowing when a track gets readily featured. Improving the discord? You're asking a very hard task Eryp.

 

this system died already

 

the system of an up?

 

No, System of a Down

 

*thankful that somebody got the reference otherwise I look like a weirdo*

 

It's not dead it's requiring a defib

 

that kinda sucks tbh because no tracks can be featured until the VIPs get off they butts