TAS - My thoughts

NOTE: Since I do use TAS I am a little biased, but I will try to keep that out of this thread.

So first, I want to go over a HUGE caveat of the rules - there are very few. Like as in two (pertaining to the game specifically). They are these:




If there are more rules, I have never seen/heard of them and I have never been directed to them by anyone. (I am getting my rules from here: https://community.freeriderhd.com/help/terms)

Anyways, so now that that one is over, I'm going to go over some of the arguments I have personally received.

1: It is hacking
No it isn't. (Actually that is completely subjective as there are no TOS to reference)
Also I'm going to use an argument that most ppl really don't like, but here goes. The definition of hacking (google dictionary) is this:
"the gaining of unauthorized access to data in a system or computer."


2: It is unfair
At one point I would have perfectly agreed with this, but at this point SO many people have it, with more people every day, that at this point, SO many people have it that there is no way they are going to give it up without being forced to. I guess it is kind of unfair, but really all you have to do is learn JavaScript. It really isn't that hard. So on the one hand, I'm sorry that you don't have it (imao) but on the other hand it kinda just means that you are too lazy to get it. If you really don't have time to learn JS, yes you do. You are reading this and (I assume) you play FRHD.

3: It is cheating
Reference hacking.

4: It is dishonest
This one varies. There are for sure some people who are TASing without admitting to it, but I for one am pretty open about my TASing. So this one is not really a solid argument against TAS, but rather against those who do not admit to it. I for one am pushing for a tag for all of the TASed ghosts, hopefully first in a mod for beta testing and then implemented into the actual game.

5: It is 3rd party software (and therefore violating the TOS)
Reference hacking.

Just a side note before I close - it is spelled TASing, not TASsing, tassing, etc. This is because you are ToolAssistedSpeedruning, there is no extra s before the ing. Just a small pet peeve

Alright. So there. I believe that TAS should not be banned, but rather tagged. This would mean that the game would tag any TASed ghosts, maybe with a big red name or something. This would be rather hard to implement since on some tracks honest ghosts look like they are TASed, ergo don't expect anything extremely accurate for quite a while. I do think that people should admit to TAS, since it is pretty easy to find out, and if they try to deny it, it will only make it worse. I for one have changed my description to include that I do, and anyone else who TASes needs to as well.

Please leave any comments below, I might edit this post to give them an honorable mention

 

I think it should only be punished if users don't include something in the script that changes the finish time on ghosts, so that they don't appear on most leaderboards

 

I would love to do this, but someone *cough* Pie42 *cough* wouldn't tell me.

EDIT: I can do it one way (inf:inf:inf) but I really don't like that. I use it when I rememeber.

 

imo it should only be banned if
- the user didn't make it. most TASers got it from certain members of the community and did nothing for it.
- the user gives it away to others.
- the user doesn't admit using it, such cases as thunderbear, vegetables, and probably many more.
- the user doesn't modify time and it's not on their own track, and without author consent. players such as 1kamikaze (I think) and tasblade do this.

tagging ghosts would be pretty easy, I think the easiest would be to include a "tas" property in ghost data, which pie42, calculus, and I, have already implemented.

I also think TAS should be referred to TAG instead, G for "ghost" rather than "speedrun".

as a sidenote, you need to know the internals of the game well to make a tas.
I have 4+ years in programming, all 4 with knowing javascript and the last one on a proficient level, but since I don't know enough about the internals of the game, most of my ghosts break at the 2nd-3rd checkpoint.

- isekeb (no oa)

 

Then stop using it until you figure out how to change the time

 

I don't think they should be ban but if you are using you 2nd account they should make a way that your first account connects with you second account

 

so.... how do we get users to add that? Actually, if the devs weren't so lethargic (So they could be working on a big update, they could be working on other KANO stuff, but I don't think so...) they could add that to the game code. The only issue is that it would be fairly easy for anyone with JS skills to remove it, so....

 

So... there is a TAG (noun) and you do TAS (also noun). So you ToolAssist *your* Speedrun, but it produces a TAG. yeah.

 

yeah, I guess.

 

Maybe there could be like a section of the best ghost times for TASers/cheaters so that more legitimate times can, you know, have a proper top 10 ghosts instead of like how things have been where there have been hacked ghosts that are marked "false" or a TAS time filling up space in a leaderboard while other times get just buried.

 

LOL I agree except for the cheaters part. If there is a valid way to tag cheaters, just remove their times!!!

 

yeah, but if cheaters couldn't be removed/or if the devs don't know how to remove those times I mean.

 

Exactly. That means there couldn't be a cheater specific leaderbpard, since it they could determine that automatically then what not just remove it?

EDIT: I have to go to bed lol. It is after 1here haha

 

wait whats tas

 

My thoughts are that if the person uses it to do trickghosts or huge, hard tracks, and changes their time so that it does not take anyones place on the leaderboard, then it's ok... But if you use it like Thunderbear does and don't change your time, then it is cheating

 

I definitely agree. I do use it on smaller tracks just because I forget I have it on, but it automatically changes my time.

 

i feel like you need to have the legendary or pro ghoster badge or whatever or are a mod developer like calculus, pie42, f-o-x or polygon
and of coarse they would need to change their times etc ... i think that it would also be good to mark the people who fit that criteria and have an account set aside for tool assisted ghosts.

Stig

Now i know you had complete authority to delete all of Pie42's ghosts on the account Tafr, but I think that the situation could have been dealt with in a different way, perhaps letting him know that he needed to stop and giving him time to record the ghosts before just deleting them all.

You (and others such as wheeliemaker) have stated that you think that spacebarring is cheating and even went so far as to suggest deleting all of the featured ghosts (notable cheated ghosts). And again I know you have complete authority to delete all spacebarred ghosts, but people have been spacebarring for years and there is nothing saying that we can't. It would be unfair just to say, "no you cannot do this" and delete all of the ghosts they worked so hard on. I personally think that the best way to do it would be to start a new featured ghost list, without deleting the current one, and just require those ghosts to be screen recorded.

 

My thoughts about the tas:

Honestly, letting people use the tas can't work. It's really fun to use, and the ghosts made with it are some of the coolest, but even if there were rigid guidelines for use of the tas, lots of people wouldn't follow them. Even now, when most people ask that you just change the time and use an alternate account, there are many people who are using it for personal gain.

I really wish some of the people who were incredibly honest about their use of the tas (generally people who made their own) would be able to use it, but you can't have light without darkness. There will always be people who give the entirety of the tas a bad name, and there will always be people who only use it to try to climb the freerider ghosting and social ladder.