Feedback from featuring discussions

bro doesnt know the struggle we had to face when the feat list was first implemented spruce THEend remember how hard it was to get our first feats??

but fr, i think this likely wont be the case. imo the feat mods now are more forgiving and understanding towards players with no/few feats, and scale their expectations up dependent on the number of features you have (ie more features = higher expectations). it’s also fair to say that some of the feat mods want an active feat track list, and so will be less gate-keepy towards newer players. whilst it may seem a bit disheartening for you and others in your spot, here are some positives to also take away from this change:
> you’re going to get CC from the best players to have played this game. if you dont get a feat the first time, the second time youre much liklier to, due to having different perspectives on what you should index more into and what should be changed
> features mean more. when my first track was featured, it was only done so after 3-5 days of deliberations, and that feature felt more meaningful to me than my other features. knowing that a majority of VIPs see your track as being one of the best on the site, will bring more meaning to each featured track
> not all VIPs think the same way. some are more biased towards newer players/your style of track than others, meaning that (imo) non-EA etc players shouldnt feel hard done by

for what it’s worth, i think your most recent track is feat worthy, though has areas for improvement that you can use in future tracks. feel free to pm if you want to discuss more : )

edit; all this being said, the best players will always find a way to break through. myself, spruce, THEend, DblU, mR..A, pinn, StevenLeary, Nitrogeneric etc all got our first features when the list was arguably at its strictest, and although the current structure of featured track deliberation is similar, it is not the same. players who are good enough will still get features, regardless of how hard or easy it is (perceived) to get a feature

 

I agree with all of this but the part where the feat mods are more forgiving for people with no/few feats. I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem to me like the featuring guidelines are more strict for people with more feats. I think that although the featuring baseline (ie "worst" possible track to get a feat) can seem variable, it doesn't seem to have a correlation (to me). I think that a more accurate statement would be that if you've demonstrated a higher ability to draw (like insanely cool stuff) that you might not be able to draw at the same level as someone who hasn't. For example, if Maple or Stig posted https://www.freeriderhd.com/t/713298-earth-day-2020 (this track is cool, don't get me wrong) I don't think that it would get featured. But if like Figured (who does have a lot, but draws in a more cartoony style most of the time) did it might.

im like mad sleepy rn and idk if this is true or made sense.

 

>feat mods have higher expectations for people with tons of features
>the messenger is featured

 

I'm hoping to address points like this in a new featuring criteria thread at some point, but I'd like to make a statement about this.

I think the most accurate thing to say is this: whether it is a new member getting a first feature or a longstanding member getting their tenth feature, it was earned because the track met our featuring standards, not the trackmaker meeting a standard.

it is impossible to completely separate the track from the trackmaker. but our feat debates focus on the track itself as much as possible. and the best arguments will always be about the track, not about the person/people who made it.

 

Hi guys, not sure when it will be but the voting time has expired!

The vote is for : https://www.freeriderhd.com/t/934810-la-bo-te-de-pandore or Pandoras box by Skijumping
Our posted cc:

Overall view: 4 yay 2 Nay - Featured
Poll closed 10:20 on 23/02/2023

Congratulations, when it happens at least to SkiJumping for his new feature.

 

I think people who feature should be more strict about everything. Previous years l felt like the quality of tracks were surplus. (There were fewer, but it does not matter for features it should be the best out of the best.) And noticeably there has been a pool of new featured tracks coming at least every other week. That declines the value and the pleasure of the tracks if there are so many and a constant rate. Last year it took people months of work to earn a feature. Perfecting their track to the fullest. For example The Origins ( https://www.freeriderhd.com/t/906266-the-origins ) I felt this track earns it l like the fell and l can tell Drndemi put all things forth and just at right abolished the expectations. Just saying cool down. Best out of best.

 

I personally think that there might be a whole load of insanely fun ride-based features soon.

I hope

 

well l don't know if they are featuring so constantly. It declines the value and pleasure of getting one. But whatever it's not my game and choices.

 

dzemas

To make it plain and simple, the point of this is to try and justify why one is or isn't, it's to stop there being blurred lines.

 

what?

 

ok understood

 

I'm pushing for that

 

Im trying to make one but I think that it relies too heavily on powerups to be a feat. It should still be fun though!!

 

i respectfully heavily disagree with that. last year there were no major trackmaking contets: those always tend to bring several, if not lots, of featured tracks. take remix contest 8 for example. over the 3 rounds, there were 13 feats, 8 of which were from the first round alone. how does having lots of feats in a short period of time negate the value of a featured track? all it means is that there have been a high number of high quality trackmakers making high quality tracks.

while there were no major contests in 2022, bar remix contest 10 back in january which saw 5 feautured tracks (+ elis late entry), for 2023 there has been the pokemon contest in late 2022-2023 (for claritys sake i count this as a 2023 contest as no featured tracks for that were released in 2022) and the remix contest 11. 7 feats from pokemon and 3 from remix so far, plus 4 from external sources makes 14 featured tracks. yes you could consider that to be too many, and yes that was the basis (if im not mistaken) for changing the methodology for featuring tracks to the vip consensus, but tbh imo of the 14 featured tracks thus far, 12 of them i would say are deserving (make of that what you will). you could make a case for featured track fatigue as you vaguely referenced, albeit subconciously in your post. yes there have been lots of feats recently but i would say that they are practically all well deserving. the pokemon contest saw some incredible tracks, and hopefully remix will see further high quality featured tracks.

e, and the last point you made about the best of the best, well i mean it is already evident that what qualifies as the best differs from vip to vip, as seen in the fact that smithereens or la boite did not receive unanimous yeses to get featured. would you have featured computer by seasnails? an average joe wouldnt call that track the best of the best, but because of the novelty of what he did with the computer and the practically flawless execution, that in itself is what made computer feature worthy

 

We changed the feat system not b/c there were too many tracks being featured, seriously if suddenly 20 tracks came out all feat worthy they'd prob all be featured(after discussion ofc). The issue was more about the system itself and it has been an issue for a few years, it's just that recently we've reached a tipping point w/ this one mod feat system and perhaps the amount of tracks that came out during the pokemon contest made it too apparent for us to dismiss.

If you have a one mod feat system where only one person needs to approve for a feature, really it sometimes just ends up being whoever w/ the lowest standards in whatever area of trackmaking featuring. You could have every VIP/feat mod disagreeing yet if one person is for it, it's featured. Also, there's no need for discussions/debates on featuring since it's all dependent on any one person's concept about what a feat. track should be. Over time this notion of what constitutes a feat becomes more morphed and unclear. We've lacked structure and have lost a solid foundation/criteria behind featuring so we're reeling it back. Back when it was a feat team there was a lot of discussion and those discussions just naturally helped to reaffirm and solidify a standard amongst us. But again, since we really don't talk and share enough perspective now this standard has kinda been lost/become more hazy over time. And it's even worse since it has a trickle-down effect on everyone else's perspective and expectations.

It'll never get as strict as what feat list was in the beginning(too strict), and I think we've all become too acclimated to the situation now. We're just putting on the brakes here and additionally reevaluating some past stuff that didn't qualify but prob would now.

Last thing, at no point was the state of feat list, feat system, and our feat decisions perfect, it's not possible/realistic. There have been many poor features over the years and generally mistakes are kept on the list(evergrowing). There are many tracks that are featured borderlines and many featureless borderlines as w/ borderline cases they'll get feat half the time(50-50 shot). So admittedly it's not a great metric/means for people to base/compare their "weakest" track on the list w/ potential feat worthy track. W/ more discussion and write-ups coming in on tracks, I think over time they'll be more clarity

 

feature the underdark

 

I think to add onto this, it's just cooler to have the feedback from people, and to know that the majority agreed with you. Ever since i read the old featuring guidelines, and seeing how only one person had to agree with something I thought it was cooler as a vote. I think that while it may be a little harder to manage this way is definetely for the best. I also think that, while it is cool to feature older tracks, it's also cool to leave things be sometimes, to show how it's changed.

While it is true that there have been a lot of features in a short amount of time, this is still very much the minority, and the cooler tracks out of all. If all tracks that were published were feature worthy, then of course the bar would be raised higher to show the best of the best. But just because there are more than normal doesn't necessarily mean the standards need to be raised right now, or that they are getting more relaxed. imo when the standards change it's not because of a decision that they all make at the same time, it's something that happens over time, probably more subonsciously then not. However, I'm not one so I can't confirm that. There's also nothing bad with more features at first, because it could supply people with: 1. more inspiration to draw from, and 2. more reason to make better tracks, because it seems more attainable.

but that's just me i probably don't know what i'm talking about, as per usual

 

spruce Since you've taken the stance of being the "ride orientated" feature mod I'm curious on what your standards are for not just the current few ride based features, but also normal featured tracks with a good rides. I'm aware of the ride flaws in kelp me with it being slippery in the key places it really shouldn't, and it being very similar in feeling to Neptune's keep but seemingly lacks in every comparable way. But the ride overall felt like a net positive to play, especially since it's a remix that put a creative spin on the original route. So I was curious as to what your standards are to vote it nay or yay for getting featured. Mostly looking for your opinion on the ride based feats we already have and whether you agree or not and why.

Rain Kids
Battle Carrier
Ajaokuta
Mammoth and Mammoth revival
Gravitic Flux
Termite Nest
Circle of Life - tbh this one should probably get re-evaluated. detail mid and trial is standard. it's really only big and isn't revolutionary in any way. Feels low even for figs
Aurora
Alice

Not to say that these are all featured solely on ride, but the ride and "fun-ness" of most these is either the defining point of the feature or had a very heavy impact on the decision. Overall I'm just trying to gather a better understanding of all the aspects of the new feat requirements, since now there's essentially featured track tiers if you wanna say a track with 5 yays over 2 nays is better than one with 4 yays over 3 nays etc lol.

Also I wanted to put forward this. I feel like it really got robbed when it came out since the detail is fine and the ride is fun. The Scientist

 

!! Attention, the text below is written by a Frenchman who speaks English like a Spanish cow !!

First of all thank you for the summary of the debate, it's really a plus in the way of understanding the new way of working.
Thank you for the Feat, I sincerely thought that it was not going to pass. I agree with the negative points, I can draw well but in volume it's still a bit poor. This reworking of the Feat system was undoubtedly favorable to me on this one, because indeed, there are much better made and much better detailed tracks which did not have this same recognition. But comparing to the past doesn't help either.

I've been good at self-criticizing for over 10 years and your perceptions of the player across the track are accurate. The day I increase the rhythm of the ride with constant details of the god level of malicia for example, I will get closer, in all humility, to what you call the best of the best. On the other hand, I will also continue to produce my little pleasures of ski jumping or dantexpress'snack. In short, thank you for the time you devote to making this whole judging system serious and pragmatic.
I will try to honor all of this as soon as I can,
Thanks for the support, keep up the good work
SJ.

 

Hi guys,

another wrap up, this vote is for https://www.freeriderhd.com/t/936072-potato-soup by Goatosaur

Only two bits of feedback this time sorry goatosaur, you're definitely getting there. I think what was put by me and maple will outline what is required by you enough

Overal vote: 0 Yay 4 Nay

Poll closed 05:20am 25th February

Unlucky goatosaur best luck next time hopefully this doesn't discourage you, you will get there with a bit of elbow grease.